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    MartindalexC

    New division and promotion structure [UPDATED 17/03/21]

    Hey NHLGamers,

    As I’m sure many of you have noticed, we have had a record number of teams sign up for the current season of ECL. Whilst growth is good, it certainly comes with some challenges, and our ECL division structure has certainly had to undergo some impromptu changes over the years to account for this exponential increase. Indeed, talk about adding a new division to reduce the strain placed on those that already exist has been a debate that has been raging for a while now, as such we hope that an update to the ECL structure, as well as the very system in which teams are promoted, will help satiate your desires as we embark into truly unchartered waters for NHL 6v6 esports.

    Please note that the changes to the promotions and relegations will be effective immediately.

     

    Core_Layout.jpg

    Introducing_ECL_Core.png

    Hitting the ice for ECL 12 will be an all-new division which will be going by the name of ‘ECL Core’. This division will aim to take up most of the strain of the ECL structure by acting as the place in which the main bulk of teams will play. Position-wise, Core will be placed in between Lite and Neo, acting as the main starting off point for teams that want to try their hand at climbing the ECL ladder. In terms of raw numbers, we are looking for Core to field a division high 128 teams. This means that we can tighten up Lite above it, condensing the skill gap between teams competing there. What this means is that ECL will starting with season 12 host the following amount of teams in each division:

    • Elite – 16 [16]
    • Pro – 32 [48]
    • Lite – 64 [112]
    • Core – 128 [240]
    • Neo – Open

    Square brackets [*] denote the aggregate number of teams within the ECL system.

    ECL_12_Structure.jpg

    As always, Neo will remain open to all teams and will not have a cap imposed upon it due to the intention being that the division in question should be available at all times to teams that are new to the 6v6 game mode, and would otherwise feel discouraged from applying to enter the ‘more serious’ division in Core.

     

     

     

    Core_Inception.jpg

    As already outlined, Core will be placed between the divisions of Lite and Neo. One of the problems that this causes is that the number of teams playing in Lite will be greatly reduced, and with that brings up the question of how to fairly allocate teams. Therefore, with that in mind here is the solution we have arrived at:

    As Lite will (for ECL 12) have a cap of 64 teams playing within it, we have decided that the top-32 Lite playoff teams from the current season (i.e. teams that make it to the second round) will maintain their spot within Lite automatically – although with that said, it can still be viewed as a promotion all things considered.

    However, this still leaves 32 spots that need to be filled. To remedy this, we have decided to run a 64-team qualifier in which 32 teams will claim their spot in Lite for ECL 12. Teams that are invited to take part are as follows: Bottom-32 Lite playoff teams (i.e. those that lost in their first round matchup), the top-20 non-playoff Lite teams, the top-8 playoff Neo teams, as well as four ‘Wildcard’ spots.

    Qualification_for_ECL_12_Lite.jpg

     

    These 64 teams will then be placed into eight groups of eight teams based on the following seeding:

    • Bottom-32 Lite playoff teams (#1-#32)
    • Top-20 non-playoff Lite teams (#33-#52)
    • Top-8 Neo playoff teams (#53-#60)
    • Wildcard* teams (#61-#64)


    *In order to be eligible to compete as a wildcard team, your team must meet the following quotas:

    • Have 3 former Elite and/or Pro starters
    • Have the remainder of the team be former Lite starting players.

    A starter is defined as having played 16 or more games in the ECL 11 season, or 20 or more games in the ECL 10 season.


    It should be noted that the Wildcard spots can either be filled by solely special* teams, remaining non-playoff Lite teams, or a combination of the two – with that said however, the special* teams take priority and if there are four eligible for admission into the qualifier, then the non-playoff Lite teams that finished 21st, 22nd, 23rd, and 24th will not be selected. If more than four special* teams should be eligible for participation into the qualifier, NHLGamer staff will be making the final selections based on player history and perceived skill level.
     

    ECL_12_Lite_Qualifier_Structure_Fixed.jp
    Note: Image has been updated March 17th - see bottom of article for more information.

     

    Once placed within these eight groups, each team will play all of their opponents twice in the usual (Home-Away) fashion, meaning that each team will finish the group stage portion of the qualifier with 14 games played. Teams finishing in the top-2 of each respective group will secure their spot in Lite for ECL 12, whilst teams finishing in the bottom-3 of each respective group will be eliminated from the second stage. As 12 more spots need to be filled at this point, a second stage will begin where the middle-3 teams from each group (i.e. those that finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th) will reseeded against each other using the tiebreakers mentioned in the rulebook, with each team being matched up against an opponent in which they will have to play a BO5. The teams victorious in this final stage will lock in their spot for Lite in ECL 12, whilst those that did not qualify will be placed in Core along with those that finished in the bottom-3 in the group stage element of the qualifier.

     

    Promotion_System.jpg

    In the spirit of including an all new division to the ECL structure we feel that updating the promotion logic between divisions would be advisable – not just from the perspective of refreshing the system, but to give you the players a more concrete setup, especially as the systems we have been using have been fairly varied and plastic.

     

    ECL_Pro_and_ECL_Lite.png

    First up we have Pro and Lite. These two divisions mark the mid-way point of the climb into Elite and are the epicentre of where the game goes from just being a hobby or pastime, to something serious, in most cases.

    From this point on, prior to every ECL season there will be a 20-team qualifier. This qualifier will be used to decide which teams are relegated, and which teams are promoted into Pro.

    Before we go into detail regarding the structure of the qualifiers, it should be mentioned that Pro teams who finished 15th and 16th in their group will be relegated straight to Lite (i.e. they will not be invited to the qualifier). Additionally, the top-3 Lite teams (i.e. the champions, runners-up, and bronze medal victor) will be promoted directly into Pro. With that out of the way, let’s get into the nitty gritty of the all-new promotion structure.

    Making up the bulk of qualifier competitors will be the Pro teams that finished 12th, 13th and 14th from both groups, as well as the top-6 remaining teams from the Lite playoffs (i.e. 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th). Joining these twelve teams will be the top-4 teams from the Core playoffs (i.e. champion, runners-up, and semifinalists). Finally, to round out the competitors to an even 20 we have four ‘wildcard’ spots. These spots can then either be filled by solely special* teams, remaining Lite playoff teams, or a combination of the two – with that said however, the special* teams take priority and if there are four eligible for admission into the qualifier, then the Lite playoff teams that finished 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th will not be selected.

    *As ECLs only occur once a calendar year, and twice per each NHL year, we feel that a balance has to be struck between affording upper echelon teams (i.e. Elite and Pro) the ability to reform in a different setting under a different team banner, as well as being ‘fair’ for teams that have worked their way up through the ECL division structure – as such, under this system we feel that balance has been struck. Of course, we would love to hear your opinions regarding this. In order to qualify as a ‘special’ team you must hit one of these two quotas:

    • Three former Elite starters
    • Four former Pro starters

    A starter is defined as having played 16 or more games in the ECL 11 season, or 20 or more games in the ECL 10 season.

     

    ECL_Promotion_System_ECL_Pro.jpg

     

    With the ‘who’ out of the way so to speak, let’s get into ‘how’ the qualifiers will be conducted.

    The twenty teams will be split into four groups of five based on the following seeding:

    1. Lite playoff team (4th)
    2. Lite playoff team (5th)
    3. Lite playoff team (6th)
    4. Lite playoff team (7th)
    5. Lite playoff team (8th)
    6. Lite playoff team (9th)
    7. Pro relegation team (12th)
    8. Pro relegation team (12th)
    9. Pro relegation team (13th)
    10. Pro relegation team (13th)
    11. Pro relegation team (14th)
    12. Pro relegation team (14th)
    13. Core playoff team (1st)
    14. Core playoff team (2nd)
    15. Core playoff team (3rd)
    16. Core playoff team (4th)
    17. Wildcard
    18. Wildcard
    19. Wildcard
    20. Wildcard

    Once the groups have been decided, each team will then play each of their opponents in the usual (Home-Away) double matchup. Once this stage has been completed, the top-3 teams from each group will progress to the second stage, meanwhile the teams finishing 4th and 5th in each group will be eliminated.

    Progressing on to the second stage we have a bit of a reshuffle of sorts, as the four group of five will be combined into two groups of six. It will not be a ‘full’ reshuffle however, as teams will progress with the other two progressing teams from their group. Furthermore, each team’s record and points accumulated from their games against the advancing teams from their group will be carried forward into this stage. Teams will then be tasked with playing against three different opponents. Once this has been completed, the top-3 teams from each of the two groups will be promoted into Pro, meanwhile the teams that finished 4th in both groups will battle against each other in a BO5 for the final Pro spot.

    Once the BO5 has been played out, and the victor promoted, the pro / lite qualifiers will have concluded.

     

    ECL Pro 11 -> 12 Transition

    We do agree that the "sudden" immediate relegation for teams in 15th and 16th spot is too harsh at this stage in the season, so we put together a compromise for the transition between ECL 11 and 12 that allows for every team to have a chance to prove their worth.


     ECL_Pro_11_to_12_transition_img.jpg

     

    1. Lite playoff team (4th)
    2. Lite playoff team (5th)
    3. Lite playoff team (6th)
    4. Lite playoff team (7th)
    5. Lite playoff team (8th)
    6. Lite playoff team (9th)
    7. Pro relegation team (12th)
    8. Pro relegation team (12th)
    9. Pro relegation team (13th)
    10. Pro relegation team (13th)
    11. Pro relegation team (14th)
    12. Pro relegation team (14th)
    13. Pro relegation team (15th)
    14. Pro relegation team (15th)
    15. Pro relegation team (16th)
    16. Pro relegation team (16th)
    17. Wildcard
    18. Wildcard
    19. Wildcard
    20. Wildcard

     

    Seven (7) out of these twenty (20) teams participating in the ECL Pro Qualification tournament will play in ECL Pro 12.

     


    ECL_Lite_and_ECL_Core.png

     

    Like the promotion structure laid out for Pro / Lite, Lite / Core will be largely the same – albeit with some minor differences.

    Instead of the qualifiers consisting of 20 teams there will be 24 teams, all competing to gain entry into Lite.

    Now for the quick rundown of who this qualifier will not have an impact on. Lite teams that finished the season prior as the 15th or 16th ranked team in their group will be directly relegated to the Core division. Meanwhile, the top-3 teams from the Core playoffs (i.e. champion, runners-up, bronze game victor) will be instantly promoted into Lite.

    With the automatic relegations / promotions out of the way let’s get into the specifics of who you will see in the Lite / Core qualifier.

    As with the Pro / Lite system, the majority of the teams taking part will be sourced from the season prior’s Core playoff teams (4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th), as well as Lite teams who were ranked 13th, or 14th in their group (of which there are four). Specifically, this means that these two groups of teams will take up 16 spots of this 24-team qualifier.

    The next group of teams invited will be the four best Neo playoff teams (i.e. champion, runners-up, and semifinalists). Finally, the remaining four slots will be ‘wildcard’ teams. The process will be similar to the one already laid out for Pro / Lite, namely that these spots can either be filled by solely special* teams, remaining Core playoff teams, or a combination of the two – with that said however, the special* teams take priority and if there are four eligible for admission into the qualifier, then the Core playoff teams that finished 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th will not be selected

    In order to qualify as a ‘special’ team you must hit one of these two quotas:

    • Five former Lite starters

    A starter is defined as having played 16 or more games in the ECL 12 season, or 20 or more games in the ECL 11 season.

    Additionally, to prevent teams from taking advantage of the staggered divisional start time that we have instituted for ECL, specifically recruiting players to bolster your chances in the qualifier that have no intention of remaining in the team beyond that, we have decided to enforce a soft roster lock post qualifier play. What this means in practice is that if a former Elite player wants to participate in a qualifier for a Pro or Lite team, then they will be locked into that division for four weeks (starting from the first game played in Elite that season). If a former Pro player wishes to do the same, then they will be locked into the division for 2 weeks (starting from the first game played in Pro that season).

    Finally, if there happens to be more open spots than anticipated (e.g. from teams disbanding which would have been invited to play in the qualifier, or owned a spot to the division in question), we will award the next highest ranked playoff team each spot, whilst the next highest ranked potential qualifier eligible team will replace them in the qualifier. This procedure will be carried out for each and every extra unforeseen spot.

    Placeholder_ECL_13_Qualifier.jpg

    Now onto the method in which the Lite / Core qualifiers will be conducted.

    The twenty-four teams will be split into four groups of six based on the following seeding:

    1. Core playoff team (4th)
    2. Core playoff team (5th)
    3. Core playoff team (6th)
    4. Core playoff team (7th)
    5. Core playoff team (8th)
    6. Core playoff team (9th)
    7. Core playoff team (10th)
    8. Core playoff team (11th)
    9. Lite relegation team (13th)
    10. Lite relegation team (13th)
    11. Lite relegation team (13th)
    12. Lite relegation team (13th)
    13. Lite relegation team (14th)
    14. Lite relegation team (14th)
    15. Lite relegation team (14th)
    16. Lite relegation team (14th)
    17. Neo playoff team (1st)
    18. Neo playoff team (2nd)
    19. Neo playoff team (3rd)
    20. Neo playoff team (4th)
    21. Wildcard
    22. Wildcard
    23. Wildcard
    24. Wildcard
       

    Once the groups have been decided, each team will then play each of their opponents in the usual (Home-Away) double matchup. Once this stage has been completed, the top-2 teams from each group will be promoted directly into Lite, whilst the bottom-2 teams will be eliminated from further contention. Of course, this leaves 5 spots still open, so, like in the Pro / Lite structure described earlier, we will have a second stage following largely the same procedure.

    The remaining teams from the four groups of six (i.e. teams that finished 3rd and 4th) will be combined into two groups of four. Teams will progress with the other progressing team from their group. Furthermore, each team’s record and points accumulated from their games against the advancing team from their group will be carried forward into this stage. Teams will then be tasked with playing against two different opponents. Once this has been completed, the top-2 teams from each of the two groups will be promoted into Lite, meanwhile the teams that finished 3rd in both groups will battle against each other in a BO5 for the final Lite spot.

     

    We realize that this article is very detailed and can be tough to digest in one sitting. Please send your questions in the comment below.

     

    EDIT: Added section "ECL Pro 11 -> 12 Transition"

    EDIT March 17th: 

    During the preparation of the new ECL 12 season, we noticed that the transition qualifier that we previously introduced for the ECL 12 Lite season had a small error. We failed to take the Wildcard teams into consideration in our math for the qualifiers which would have lead to an 68 team Lite division.

    We will still use the previously announced system we mentioned in our structure article, but we will be making a small adjustment: The playoff line will be moved from above the 7th seed to above the 6th seed. This means that the top 5 teams out of each qualifying group has a chance to continue to play for the ECL Lite promotion, while the 6th-8th ranked teams in each group will solidify their spot in the Core division.

    We apologize for the miscalculation while creating the new system, but we still believe that having a chance to fight for the ECL Lite promotion as a 5th ranked team in your individual group still gives you a very fair chance to make it.




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    Really like that teams who could previously survive for multiple seasons in Pro due to the relegation system will now have to battle for their spots (and that the wildcard teams can play their way into pro) :) max 10 teams promoted/relegated sounds like a lot in a 32 team division but I think it’s going to be really good for the competitiveness of the scene and balancing out the divisions, (almost) no one’s gonna be safe and the best will be on top :D 

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    First of all I want to thank all the People who are involved in this decision and process and how much time they invested for this Game we all love (and sometimes hate :D) to play. I appreciate that there will be a new league between the Neo and Lite to reduce the skill gap between existing and newstarting teams. Between clubs which play just for fun or those that follow a more competetive goal. As someone who most likely will be affected by the qualification tournament for the ECL Pro I have to say that I do not see the sense in that qualifier. It is hard enough to get promoted and even harder to stay in the League. So why should additional Teams ranked 12th to 14th (that normally would have stayed in the League) in their Pro-Group play an additional tournament to fight for staying up. Considering even more that the Schedule around ECL and national tournaments is busy and gets even busier now. I do not see how this additional qualifier increases the competetiveness at this Level and teams achievements from last seasons will not be as worthy as they were before and should be? The biggest Problem I see is that this big decision is made during the season - 3 Matchdays before the Season ends the whole Relegation System is changed. That's something which should have been done in a different way. For Example: Implementing ECL Core for coming ECL12 and changing the Promotion System for Pro in ECL13. So all competing Teams know what they have to do to stay in the League before it starts. Furthermore a occuring problem is that a Pro Team that finishes 14-12 has a few weeks without a league Game and needs to compete immediately against Teams from different Leagues which are freshly out of the Playoffs and in better shape & rhythm.

    Edited by Keuschemisch
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    So now basically Neo is new Lite, and Lite and Core are where teams fall through gaps instead of being stepping stones towards Elite. TLDR

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    Another division.. nice

    Now we REALLY need more than 2 ECL tournaments per year 

    Make them shorter, get more admins, make it happen. 

    ------

    ECL 1 

    Qualifiers

    ECL 2 

    Qualifiers

    ECL 3 

    Qualifiers 

    **new game**

    The team with the most ECL wins (out of 3) = EU Champs

    -----

     

    Edited by iSvamp
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    First guys congrats for this outstanding job done, especially to @MartindalexC for taking the time of writting all that stuff.

    I have two questions : 

    1- will teams made with some former Elite/Pro players that want to play "for fun" be allowed in Neo?
    2- what is the plan if, for example, a team runs the qualifier for Lite, wins it and then, finally changes smthg like 40% or more of its roster? I mean the former roster is legit but the new one, not necesseraly

    Thanks for your answers 

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    17 hours ago, Keuschemisch said:

    First of all I want to thank all the People who are involved in this decision and process and how much time they invested for this Game we all love (and sometimes hate :D) to play. I appreciate that there will be a new league between the Neo and Lite to reduce the skill gap between existing and newstarting teams. Between clubs which play just for fun or those that follow a more competetive goal. As someone who most likely will be affected by the qualification tournament for the ECL Pro I have to say that I do not see the sense in that qualifier. It is hard enough to get promoted and even harder to stay in the League. So why should additional Teams ranked 12th to 14th (that normally would have stayed in the League) in their Pro-Group play an additional tournament to fight for staying up. Considering even more that the Schedule around ECL and national tournaments is busy and gets even busier now. I do not see how this additional qualifier increases the competetiveness at this Level and teams achievements from last seasons will not be as worthy as they were before and should be? The biggest Problem I see is that this big decision is made during the season - 3 Matchdays before the Season ends the whole Relegation System is changed. That's something which should have been done in a different way. For Example: Implementing ECL Core for coming ECL12 and changing the Promotion System for Pro in ECL13. So all competing Teams know what they have to do to stay in the League before it starts. Furthermore a occuring problem is that a Pro Team that finishes 14-12 has a few weeks without a league Game and needs to compete immediately against Teams from different Leagues which are freshly out of the Playoffs and in better shape & rhythm.

    Thanks for the feedback. Definitely understand the criticism. We did say before the start of the season that there would be changes made to the 11->12 structure and it is mentioned in the rulebook - but of course we would have ideally had the exact information out sooner.

    Previously, teams 13-16 have faced the fear of relegation, so the fear of elimination was always there for those teams.

    We do agree that the "sudden" immediate relegation for teams in 15th and 16th spot is too harsh at this stage in the season, so we put together a compromise for the transition between ECL 11 and 12 that allows for every team to have a chance to prove their worth.


     ECL_Pro_11_to_12_transition_img.jpg

     

    1. Lite playoff team (4th)
    2. Lite playoff team (5th)
    3. Lite playoff team (6th)
    4. Lite playoff team (7th)
    5. Lite playoff team (8th)
    6. Lite playoff team (9th)
    7. Pro relegation team (12th)
    8. Pro relegation team (12th)
    9. Pro relegation team (13th)
    10. Pro relegation team (13th)
    11. Pro relegation team (14th)
    12. Pro relegation team (14th)
    13. Pro relegation team (15th)
    14. Pro relegation team (15th)
    15. Pro relegation team (16th)
    16. Pro relegation team (16th)
    17. Wildcard
    18. Wildcard
    19. Wildcard
    20. Wildcard

     

    Seven (7) out of these twenty (20) teams participating in the ECL Pro Qualification tournament will play in ECL Pro 12.

     

     

    3 hours ago, iSvamp said:

    Another division.. nice

    Now we REALLY need more than 2 ECL tournaments per year 

    Make them shorter, get more admins, make it happen. 

    I don't personally agree with this, but as always, feel free to convince me otherwise. :)

    We made some important structural changes that allows for teams to be "fast-tracked" to higher divisions by giving them opportunities to prove themselves. This should mean that teams find their accurate level of competition as fast, if not faster than before.

    To me, ECL is a league, not a quick-burst tournament. By shortening the season and cramming in more victors, you're potentially lessening the value of each individual season. Additionally, in the process you're probably preventing teams/players from taking part in other tournaments, because it's always running.

    That is not to say that a structure like you describe couldn't or won't work. I just don't think it's as simple as it sounds.

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    2 hours ago, Virtual_Saku said:

    First guys congrats for this outstanding job done, especially to @MartindalexC for taking the time of writting all that stuff.

    I have two questions : 

    1- will teams made with some former Elite/Pro players that want to play "for fun" be allowed in Neo?
    2- what is the plan if, for example, a team runs the qualifier for Lite, wins it and then, finally changes smthg like 40% or more of its roster? I mean the former roster is legit but the new one, not necesseraly

    Thanks for your answers 

    Big tip of the hat to the entire LA team, but since one was mentioned above, I'll additionally tip my hat to @Franky__2768 who put in a lot of work.

     

    1) I don't think we're going to ban individual players with Elite/Pro history from playing in Neo as a rule, as maybe someone wants to pull a Jagr to continue their career with some friends and that doesn't hurt the integrity of the division. That being said, spontaneously, I think Core would be a better level for this.

    As for a team with lots of experience playing in Neo - no. That is not the right place for you.

     

    2) Roster rules in the rulebook apply. Feedback on how to potentially improve said rules is always appreciated.

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    46 minuuttia sitten, Ozolinsh44 kirjoitti:

    Hi who can explain me how can I start here play with my team 

    There will be a news story when next tournament is about to start. Then there will be more info and teams are asked to sign-up.

    Edited by ahonaattorii

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    1 tunti sitten, iSvamp kirjoitti:

    Det fungerar för större Esporter. Så varför skulle det vara en begränsning för NHL? 

     

    Sist jag lyfte denna idé så var NHLgamers motargument

    "Vi har inte tid". Ändå kom det efter den kommentaren 4st turneringar i Spring League, SCL, Summer Cup och ett finskt SM. 

    Att peta in ett ECL där hade ni med facit i hand mäktat med. 

    Vi såg även i somras att hungern för att spela fanns hos majoriteten av ECL-lagen. 

    Så varför vi kör samma ECL struktur 2020 som vi gjorde med EHL/EC 2010-15 är ju rätt konstigt om vi vill att Esporten ska växa. 

    En seriös Esport org har inga problem att mäta sig med andra mer än 2 ggr per år. Jag lovar att alla skulle tycka (tillslut) att det vore fantastiskt att mäta sina muskler med varandra oftare än vad lagen får göra nu. 

    Vi skulle förmodligen se fler nya stjärnor tampas med de bästa med fler tävlingar varje år än dagens 2 officiella EM. 

    In english? Everyone is not so good in swedish and like to read every comments here :)

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    18 hours ago, iSvamp said:

    Det fungerar för större Esporter. Så varför skulle det vara en begränsning för NHL? 

     

    Sist jag lyfte denna idé så var NHLgamers motargument

    "Vi har inte tid". Ändå kom det efter den kommentaren 4st turneringar i Spring League, SCL, Summer Cup och ett finskt SM. 

    Att peta in ett ECL där hade ni med facit i hand mäktat med. 

    Vi såg även i somras att hungern för att spela fanns hos majoriteten av ECL-lagen. 

    Så varför vi kör samma ECL struktur 2020 som vi gjorde med EHL/EC 2010-15 är ju rätt konstigt om vi vill att Esporten ska växa. 

    En seriös Esport org har inga problem att mäta sig med andra mer än 2 ggr per år. Jag lovar att alla skulle tycka (tillslut) att det vore fantastiskt att mäta sina muskler med varandra oftare än vad lagen får göra nu. 

    Vi skulle förmodligen se fler nya stjärnor tampas med de bästa med fler tävlingar varje år än dagens 2 officiella EM. 

    Well done ignoring my points and writing in Swedish. 👍🏼

    Doesn't mute your points, but doesn't make for much of a conversation. Please write in English or we'll have to remove the messages. 

     

     

    Edit: As you continue arguing and provoking in Swedish, I have hidden the messages, as promised. The (first) original message can be read in the quote above.

    In his response (hidden, due to continuing in Swedish) he claims I'm escaping his questions rather than answering and that I'm being a "big leader who gets things to look good by deleting messages". Additionally, he expects every page to separately say "English only", despite that being our policy for the 5+ years he's been a member. 

    I'm always interested having a proper discussion about these things, evaluate different options and get different views. I have my opinions and I do my best to explain why I see things in a certain way and what the problem areas of another approach might be from my point of view. From my point of view you ignored what I wrote, continue writing in a language that most people here don't understand (I do, but this is a public discussion) and top it off by acting disrespectfully.

    I think it's ridiculous that you keep brining up a claim that ECL has the same structure as EHL/EC 2010-2015. Yes, ECL runs twice a year and has a hockey-esque regular season + playoffs, but if you don't acknowledge all of the other development that has happened from those days - then I'm afraid we just see things very differently.

    You say I used "we don't have time" as the argument for not running more ECL's in a year and yet succeeded in "running a Spring League, SCL, Summer Cup and Finnish Championships after the fact". If your view of NHL esports is to play ECL, then ECL, then ECL, then ECL, then ECL and then some more ECL, then yeah, sure - we should probably scrap all of that. From my point of view, the different tournaments and leagues are things that keep it fresh and make winning the "biggies" exciting. I love the ECL. I love the World Championships. I love the Olympics. I love the NHL. Yet I wouldn't want to watch any of these four all year and the competitors wouldn't have time to participate in all of these. That is my main point - keeping it interesting. Making titles mean something. Letting champions celebrate their championships.

    Am I 100% satisfied with everything we do? Are we making the right call every time? Are we spending every minute efficiently? Of course not. Are we creating something incredibly nice and keep pushing the envelope in NHL esports - I believe so. Constructive feedback will continue to push us to greater things. However you package your feedback, we will receive it and consider it, but it makes no sense for me to take the time and effort to respond if you're just going to ignore my points and continue being offensive.

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    @Keuschemisch I understand your frustration as i'm also playing for Pro team that is prob heading to qualification series instead of securing the spot for next season. Timing could have been better. However the community keeps growing, new teams popping up year after year, and the pressure building up to lower divisions is forcing to make changes. Transition will always hurt some teams and players, but it's necessary for greater good and continuum of ECL.

    These changes will add more value and competition to Lite division as the third division of ECL which is imo pretty cool, in historic point of view as well. I also think that gap between Elite and Pro is getting bigger season after season. Pro qualification series will make sure that every team in the Pro division is motivated and operating at the right level to bring more competition to Pro division and hopefully reduce the gap to Elite. I think this is something that top Pro teams and players have been hoping. 

    I think guys made good job thinking this through. This structure will bring more balance to league at this point. No-one enjoys loosing 20-30 games in a season and see teams giving up because of it. I agree with @iSwamp that community needs to work with new ideas for the future but at this point of the timeline Core and qualifications are welcomed changes.  

    ''Less cabinet, more qualification.''

    p.s. I had no part in this process. Just my own opinions of it. Happy New Year everyone!

     

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    15 tuntia sitten, Ozolinsh44 kirjoitti:

    I want join here my team can you let me knoow what i need doing first

    Like @ahonaattorii said⬇️

     

    On 30.12.2020 at 17.56, ahonaattorii kirjoitti:

    There will be a news story when next tournament is about to start. Then there will be more info and teams are asked to sign-up.

    Now just train hard and wait new sign up😊

    Edited by Raikkoneeh
    Rällinglish
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    Hi ! I have a question about the qualification tournament. When will it be played ? Just after ECL11 or just before ECL12 ? And is there an obligation of keeping the same roster between ECL11 and the QT, or between the QT and ECL12 ? 
     

    Thanks :) !

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    I think the new league structure is much better. Skill gap in lite was huge and hopefully this change ups the level of competition. 

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    These are welcome changes as far as I'm concerned. The skill gap in Lite has been excessive based on results and the level of some of the Lite teams I've faced in regular EASHL with my team. There are a number of teams down there that would have done fine in Pro this season, and then there are others that are nowhere near that level. Also, making it easier for competitive Lite teams to climb up and more difficult for struggling Pro teams to stay there seems good to me.

     

    I do agree that such a big change during the season feels a bit abrupt. To enter a season knowing full well what's at stake is rather different to playing this far into it and then being informed that those stakes have been altered and now your team needs to adapt to the new scenario. I guess I should have just kept my eyes open though since this was made known from the outset, as Kenu pointed out.

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    Quote

    From this point on, prior to every ECL season there will be a 20-team qualifier. This qualifier will be used to decide which teams are relegated, and which teams are promoted into Pro.

    Quote

    Additionally, to prevent teams from taking advantage of the staggered divisional start time that we have instituted for ECL, specifically recruiting players to bolster your chances in the qualifier that have no intention of remaining in the team beyond that, we have decided to enforce a soft roster lock post qualifier play. What this means in practice is that if a former Elite player wants to participate in a qualifier for a Pro or Lite team, then they will be locked into that division for four weeks (starting from the first game played in Elite that season). If a former Pro player wishes to do the same, then they will be locked into the division for 2 weeks (starting from the first game played in Pro that season).

     

    Judging from these, I assume the qualifier is to be played just before the start of next season instead of immediately after the current one has ended like in the old system? So the qualifying teams will have the whole lengthy offseason to train and make personnel changes, so concerns like the one I quoted below should be irrelevant, right?

     

    On 12/29/2020 at 8:46 PM, Keuschemisch said:

    Furthermore a occuring problem is that a Pro Team that finishes 14-12 has a few weeks without a league Game and needs to compete immediately against Teams from different Leagues which are freshly out of the Playoffs and in better shape & rhythm.

     

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    In my opinion the qualifiers should be played with the same line-up as the team played in ecl11 (Rules about wildcard teams are okay), there is no need for those "Sauna contracts". Qualifiers should be played asap and then teams can start making changes to their rosters for the ecl12. 

    But if we are going with that "soft roster lock" rule, i think 2 weeks division lock for the former pro players is not enough, that should be the same 4 weeks like former elite players. Or then players who are participating qualifiers (=join the team just before the qualifiers starts) are forced to play whole season in that team in ecl12 (best solution imo) 

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    Anyway, it should be secured that players are not allowed to play solely a qualification tournament for one team and then go back to their origin team. In my opinion the current roster rules definitely need some adjustments to prevent player rentals from teams that don’t have to participate in any qualification cups. 

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    20 tuntia sitten, Saviinainen kirjoitti:

    In my opinion the qualifiers should be played with the same line-up as the team played in ecl11 (Rules about wildcard teams are okay), there is no need for those "Sauna contracts". Qualifiers should be played asap and then teams can start making changes to their rosters for the ecl12. 

    But if we are going with that "soft roster lock" rule, i think 2 weeks division lock for the former pro players is not enough, that should be the same 4 weeks like former elite players. Or then players who are participating qualifiers (=join the team just before the qualifiers starts) are forced to play whole season in that team in ecl12 (best solution imo) 

    I am tempted to disagree with the second point because one could get promotion to Pro with their ECL11 team but then attend ECL12 Pro with totally different team which could or could not be good enough for Pro. Of course those roster lock rules could prevent teams from changing players too much. I don't have like super strong opinion on this as I can understand the pros and cons of both options but I do feel that the qualification tournament should take place prior to the next ECL.

    Edited by layout
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