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    SJK eSports vs. Written in the Stars - LA Decision

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    NHLGamers,

    In the case that occured between SJK eSports and Written in the Stars in the ECL Elite semi-finals, the following outcome has been agreed on:

    • No extra time will be given.

      Before the ECL 5 Playoffs, the Staff took heavy criticism for lack of clarity in terms of deadlines. Not only in ECL 5, but in previous ECLs as well. Since the beginning of the ECL 5 playoffs, extra effort has been made to improve the clarity of that information. Therefore, the statement "Each pairing, Elite or Pro, must be finished within 7 days from today, meaning last evening to play games is December xxth. Don't expect any extensions!" has been included whenever possible (including in all Elite playoff news communication). Furthermore, a notification above the chatbox with the exact information of the last day to play has been visible for the past two rounds. We have not seen any valid arguments as to why extra time should be given.
       
    • Precedent

      Precedent is a legal term that is defined as "an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances.". In the ECL 5 Playoffs, there is a precedent for this type of case. In the Pro playoff matchup between Gotham Knights and J P T J, Gotham was awarded 2 WO wins due to J P T J not being able to produce a lineup on the assigned day. Ruling to give extra time in this case would suggest that teams are not equal and that the rules do not have the same meaning to all teams. This is not true for the ECL.
       
    • Both Captains were lacking in communication

      The fact that LA received this information on the day of the last scheduled playoff date is the reason for this verdict taking so long. Always remember, if you are experiencing trouble scheduling games, getting in touch with LA as early as possible is not only encouraged - it is also expected as these decisions need to be discussed thoroughly before deciding.
       
    • Availability

      This is LAs understanding of the availability of both teams:
      Wednesday: SJK available, SKY unavailable
      Thursday: SJK available, SKY unavailable
      Friday: SJK available, SKY unavailable
      Saturday: SJK available, SKY unavailable
      Sunday: SJK unavailable, SKY available
      Monday: SJK available, SKY available - 4 games played
      Tuesday: SJK available, SKY available - but at different times and could not come to an agreement on starting time

      This gives a total of SJK available on 6/7 days and SKY available on 3/7 days for the round. If we look at traditionally scheduled game days (Monday, Wednesday, Thursday) SJK was available on 3/3 days and SKY on 1/3 days.

      The LAs understanding of availability is based on official communication from both teams with regards to this case. In the case of SKY, their extended unavailability is also understood to be due to one of their preferred forwards (Bugimir) being away on vacation until Sunday the 3rd of December - information that was communicated to LA at an earlier point when SKY appealed for more time to play their games in the previous round versus Dynasty. Furthermore, FlyerKungen's (SKY captain) very public comments on a previous news story gave the clear impression that SKY were not interested in playing any playoff games without their top 6 lineup and that leniency in the form of extra days should be given to ensure the integrity of the league. In this context the 8-player roster limit, that has been part of the ECL rules since the first season, was questioned as well.

      LA argues that the integrity of the league is ensured by teams following the deadlines that have been communicated with the utmost clarity throughout the entire playoffs. A key aspect to meeting these deadlines is keeping a healthy roster size, which the vast majority of teams in all divisions have been working on. Running a 6-player core roster accompanied by two "dummy" players turned out to be the main dealbreaker in this case.

     

    RULING
    SJK is awarded 2 WO wins and moves on to the ECL Elite finals. The decision rests heavily on the amount of days both teams were available as that is the only valid parameter this case could possibly be ruled on - once the option of "extra time" was precluded.

     

    CONCLUSIONS
    Walkover wins in the playoffs are never a good thing, no matter what round or division. However, having a League Administration that sticks to rules and announcements and treats all of the teams equally builds trust in the platform. While things still weren't perfect throughout ECL 5, we are adjusting parameters every season to eradicate the remaining hiccups. This means we will need to ask you some questions before the start of ECL 6: Is the 8-player limit a well-deemed rule? Are 7 days enough to complete possibly 7 games in a single playoff round? Do we need to take an entirely different approach to scheduling and enforcing deadlines?

     

    An additional post announcing the Elite finals will be released, but finalists Aapon Taikasauva and SJK can start scheduling their games.

    League Administration

    Edited by gzell60




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    1 minute ago, Tuukka.R said:

    Maybe LA needs atleast one member who plays in top elite team. Maybe then I dont have to read about "Sky didnt wanted to play without top 6 players, we have 8 player roster limit" Xddd Who is playing tight semifinal games with y roster. If you want to win something you have to have 6 good/top players. 8 roster limit is good when we are talking about regular season. 

    Uh huh

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    18 minuuttia sitten, Tuukka.R kirjoitti:

    Maybe LA needs atleast one member who plays in top elite team. Maybe then I dont have to read about "Sky didnt wanted to play without top 6 players, we have 8 player roster limit" Xddd Who is playing tight semifinal games with y roster. If you want to win something you have to have 6 good/top players. 8 roster limit is good when we are talking about regular season. 

    How can you be so arrogant?

    Edited by Slaivone
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    23 minutes ago, Tuukka.R said:

    Maybe LA needs atleast one member who plays in top elite team. Maybe then I dont have to read about "Sky didnt wanted to play without top 6 players, we have 8 player roster limit" Xddd Who is playing tight semifinal games with y roster. If you want to win something you have to have 6 good/top players. 8 roster limit is good when we are talking about regular season. 

    I'm sorry, but you're just being silly. Teams are more than welcome to use their "top 6" lineups for every single game. That said, if teams can't play the games on time, their captains need to reconsider their approach and look for more players.

    Here's the thing that's wrong with your statement - if you want to win something, you have to have AT LEAST 6 good/top players.

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    Read this in mind that this isn't personal, trying to see objectively.

    Every ECL the same show, timetables are tried to bend as much because someone always doesn't commit to the timetable. These are plainly put in the rules. I know that unexpected happen but every single team and player has to be ready for that. By registering you agree and sign the seasons rules and schedules. 

    IMO good decision to enforce tightly no matter what teams and divisions is in question. Sad that it had to be on top division semifinals, but maybe after this every team will know that you have to plan your team accordingly. Props to LA.

     

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    9 minutes ago, Slaivone said:

    How can you be so arrogant?

    Ape can't be talking about himself right? I mean Gzell made it to the same round as him :D

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    I just want to made it clear, SJK, SKY or me, didnt come to ask any special treatment. Never. We dont think we should get any. As ADETIKKI said, we are here to play and love this game. SKY & SJK were both prefering playing, instead of WOs. We tried to work together to get one night more. Bc ofc!! We wanna play, win or lose. Thats the only way, when we are in Elite Playoffs. Imo.

    Im just little bit confused why people was so much against it. Don't you wanna see these awesome playoff games played? Would people be jealous or something if that extra day would given? If yes, why? I understand there is rules, but we didn't made this on purpose with SJK. It wasn't our fault, it wasn't SJKs fault. And for last time, there was nothing to do with that first lineup. These cases are not very common in Elite Playoffs I think. In my eyes, in this situation and both teams driving same thing together.. little extra time would been understandable.

    Remember, this was friendly based writing...

    @ADETIKKI @Bugimir @s_w1ld_rus Thx to all my teammates! Your support atm is most important thing! Love ya! :)

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    4 minutes ago, FlyerKungen said:

    I just want to made it clear, SJK, SKY or me, didnt come to ask any special treatment. Never. We dont think we should get any. As ADETIKKI said, we are here to play and love this game. SKY & SJK were both prefering playing, instead of WOs. We tried to work together to get one night more. Bc ofc!! We wanna play, win or lose. Thats the only way, when we are in Elite Playoffs. Imo.

    Im just little bit confused why people was so much against it. Don't you wanna see these awesome playoff games played? Would people be jealous or something if that extra day would given? If yes, why? I understand there is rules, but we didn't made this on purpose with SJK. It wasn't our fault, it wasn't SJKs fault. And for last time, there was nothing to do with that first lineup. These cases are not very common in Elite Playoffs I think. In my eyes, in this situation and both teams driving same thing together.. little extra time would been understandable.

    Remember, this was friendly based writing...

    @ADETIKKI @Bugimir @s_w1ld_rus Thx to all my teammates! Your support atm is most important thing! Love ya! :)

    Try that argument with your boss at work :)

    There is a reason why there are rules. The reason is that logic and rational reasons are subjective and therefore will always inspire a feeling of uncertainty and unequality. Rules are simple and easy to understand...for most people.

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    C'mon guys for everyone to complete theirs games, it has been given the same amount of days, dosent matters if you are elite,pro, or lite player.The rules are the same for everyone and if you cant finnish the games on time thats not LA fault but yours...

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    People can talk about respect for the league and respect for the game all they want, and how it is ridiculous that LA gives out WO’s at this stage in a ”competitive eSports league”, but respect for the league is a two-way street - you and me, as players, should respect the league enough to have the games played within the allocated time period. 

    Edited by tbnantti
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    14 minutes ago, elvijs99 said:

    C'mon guys for everyone to complete theirs games, it has been given the same amount of days, dosent matters if you are elite,pro, or lite player.The rules are the same for everyone and if you cant finnish the games on time thats not LA fault but yours...

    shädäp

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    3 tuntia sitten, FlyerKungen kirjoitti:

    Im just little bit confused why people was so much against it. Don't you wanna see these awesome playoff games played? Would people be jealous or something if that extra day would given? If yes, why? I understand there is rules, but we didn't made this on purpose with SJK.

    I believe everyone wants to see games played and not WOs.

    But I also believe majority of players wants the deadlines to hold and be respected.. even if WOs are required to achieve that. We learned from last year we need to finish the tournament before christmas and that's why there are deadlines.

    I have read all the messages here and based on that I think the problem in this case was that LA recieved the information about scheduling problem too late and they didn't recieve all the information about this case before their decision. And maybe teams scheduling games were too confident that they will get that extra day if needed.

    If LA would have been contacted earlier with all the important information about this case, maybe there would had been one extra day for semifinals to be played who knows.

    Too bad there had to be WOs. I would have wanted to see the games played. But I am also happy LA respected the deadline. Not easy decision to make for LA. Good luck to final teams and good luck to SKY for next season.

    Edited by Slaivone
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    Yes, yes. But we (SKY) saw that case like either team can't get WOs. At the end, available days from both teams were kinda fifty-fifty. As I wrote on previous pages. I don't see any good reason why SJK got WOs, but we didn't want those either so... What ever. 

    Lets move on... 

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    Great job, LA.

    I'm not surprised that some people are angry and that some tries to friends with everybody by sucking it up to the teams involved - there's so many dumb people on this earth, some are bound to be on this site as well.

    Edit: 

    Actually, this is a great way of sorting out the people with some brains and the people who're stupid as **** on this site. Jej!

    Edited by Lainzndr

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    10 hours ago, Lainzndr said:

    Great job, LA.

    I'm not surprised that some people are angry and that some tries to friends with everybody by sucking it up to the teams involved - there's so many dumb people on this earth, some are bound to be on this site as well.

    Edit: 

    Actually, this is a great way of sorting out the people with some brains and the people who're stupid as **** on this site. Jej!

    How you've managed to scrape 13 upvotes together throughout your community career is somewhat of a mystery. :S 

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    9 hours ago, nylanderi said:

    #apestaffiin

    Sorry #äoraja :x

    Edited by imosi
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    34 minutes ago, cHIIMEERa said:

    How you've managed to scrape 13 upvotes together throughout your community career is somewhat of a mystery. :S 

    Well, I think its a mystery that you scratch Floor and play yourself in the playoffs, but Im not counting your up-votes b/c of it. Perhaps you couldve barked at the wind or slapped your chest some more, who knows....

    On topic: its pretty obvious that some people dont understand rules and why you have them. Isnt that a ”tell” that you’re: (1) really really stupid or (2) really really really really stupid?

     

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    1 hour ago, Lainzndr said:

    Well, I think its a mystery that you scratch Floor and play yourself in the playoffs, but Im not counting your up-votes b/c of it. Perhaps you couldve barked at the wind or slapped your chest some more, who knows....

    On topic: its pretty obvious that some people dont understand rules and why you have them. Isnt that a ”tell” that you’re: (1) really really stupid or (2) really really really really stupid?

     

    Dude, no one cares what you have to say.

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    3 minutes ago, cHIIMEERa said:

    Dude, no one cares what you have to say.

    That answer is cute and it really dosnt get to me, tbh.. Are you mad because I called people stupid (when they dont understand what rules are), or b/c the SHL wont let you spout out false info on their site anymore?

     

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    This is a monumental decision. In one of those "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situations for the admins, I think they came through for the good of the community in the long run.

    Teams and individual players need to plan their schedule around these games more if they are to participate. Some of them will never do that if they can fall back on extending deadlines whenever it's convenient for them. Consider any organized tournament of note in any other game. You can't take a rain check on your participation if you've already signed up. Either you get in the games when they start, or you get out. The default leeway for scheduling in the ECL is generous enough. If you can't work with that it's time to look in the mirror.

    And really, it does come down to planning ahead. There are people playing these leagues with plenty of obligations between work and family who still have a clean record in adhering to deadlines. With several days for rescheduling around the preset time, the fact that it can be done is proven by many over each of these long seasons. Sure, a team may encounter obstacles they had no possible way of planning for despite the backup players and the time given for rescheduling. That is highly unlikely but certainly possible. Even then, the rules need to be a constant which all teams can rely on, and walkover wins against a team with such exceptionally bad luck are offset by the vast majority of these cases in which the team could've done something differently.

    SKY are obviously one of the consistently best teams in the ECL. Their performance in the first round against DYN was possibly the most dominant between two top teams that I've seen, and they more than deserved to continue fighting for a place in the finals. No one in their right mind wants to see the semifinals decided this way.

    However, the league schedule needs to mean something. It needs to be worked with and not against. Ultimately, that is the clearest and fairest way for everyone involved, and that is why this needed to happen. League Admins, I applaud you.

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    17 hours ago, MartindalexC said:

    Then fucking give him all the details?? How can they make a decision if you seemingly hold pertinent information from them, dear fucking jesus christ on a bike, for the love of god never go near a court-room. 

     

    (Fade in)

    Interior: Court-room somewhere in Helsinki

    [F=Mr Kungen, J=Judge]

    -----

    J: So is that everything?

    F: Yes

    J: Okay, well in that case I'm sentencing you to two years imprisonment for being useless.

    F: Ohhhh myyyyy godddddddddddd you dumb Judge.... why didn't you ask me this question? I would've told you this information that could've changed your outlook on this situation.

    J: Are you kidding me?

    F: No, stop being incompetent and do your job

    J: ???????????

     

     

    I really feel that this post can't be quoted enough

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    49 minuuttia sitten, Lainzndr kirjoitti:

    I really feel that this post can't be quoted enough

    I really feel like you need to be quiet more often.

    Next time you post something i hope its something positive.

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    24 minutes ago, Crisu_rottis said:

    I really feel like you need to be quiet more often.

    Next time you post something i hope its something positive.

    I disagree. It rather seems like I should speak up more than I already am, considering the lack of knowledge, reasoning and morality of a lot of posters on here. Comments like yours, Chimeras and the likes of: "Shut up!" and "Be quite and only write stuff that's positive", more sounds like something that would be said in a dictatorship instead of an online forum. LA should be praised to the skies (hehe, sky...) for their judgement on this matter, not get comments like "Let em play CAMA!" or "Worst failure evah, LA is dumb, elite teams should be treated differently".

     

    Once again, good job LA. 

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    15 minutes ago, Lainzndr said:

    I disagree. It rather seems like I should speak up more than I already am, considering the lack of knowledge, reasoning and morality of a lot of posters on here. Comments like yours, Chimeras and the likes of: "Shut up!" and "Be quite and only write stuff that's positive", more sounds like something that would be said in a dictatorship instead of an online forum. LA should be praised to the skies (hehe, sky...) for their judgement on this matter, not get comments like "Let em play CAMA!" or "Worst failure evah, LA is dumb, elite teams should be treated differently".

     

    Once again, good job LA. 

    Cama echo chamber 

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    19 minutes ago, Lainzndr said:

    I disagree. It rather seems like I should speak up more than I already am, considering the lack of knowledge, reasoning and morality of a lot of posters on here. Comments like yours, Chimeras and the likes of: "Shut up!" and "Be quite and only write stuff that's positive", more sounds like something that would be said in a dictatorship instead of an online forum. LA should be praised to the skies (hehe, sky...) for their judgement on this matter, not get comments like "Let em play CAMA!" or "Worst failure evah, LA is dumb, elite teams should be treated differently".

     

    Once again, good job LA. 

    You think you're enlighting us when in reality you're just being a dumbass.

    @MartindalexC Please help this guy get better at what he is trying to do. Being like you that is.

    Edited by cHIIMEERa
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    21 minuuttia sitten, Lainzndr kirjoitti:

    I disagree. It rather seems like I should speak up more than I already am, considering the lack of knowledge, reasoning and morality of a lot of posters on here. Comments like yours, Chimeras and the likes of: "Shut up!" and "Be quite and only write stuff that's positive", more sounds like something that would be said in a dictatorship instead of an online forum. LA should be praised to the skies (hehe, sky...) for their judgement on this matter, not get comments like "Let em play CAMA!" or "Worst failure evah, LA is dumb, elite teams should be treated differently".

     

    Once again, good job LA. 

    If you would be reading the posts correctly, you would know i held LAs side aswell, that is not my point here.

    My point here is that youre making every single thing personal.

    The way you show up here and disrespect other members is not a good thing, you should know that.

    Even though this matter has 2 sides, and you have taken yours, it is no excuse to attack against other people the way you are.

    I hope you understand my point someday about mutual respect.

    Edited by Crisu_rottis

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    1 minute ago, cHIIMEERa said:

    You think you're enlighting us when in reality you're just being a dumbass.

    @MartindalexC Please help this guy get better at what he is trying to do. Being like you that is.

    Nothing you can do but sheer persistence, and call everyone and everything retarded, that's what I do anyway :ph34r:

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    14 minutes ago, Crisu_rottis said:

    If you would be reading the posts correctly, you would know i held LAs side aswell, that is not my point here.

    My point here is that youre making every single thing personal.

    The way you show up here and disrespect other members is not a good thing, you should know that.

    Even though this matter has 2 sides, and you have taken yours, it is no excuse to attack against other people the you are.

    I hope you understand my point someday about mutual respect.

    You missed his point though, he wasn't complaining about you shitting on the LA. He was complaining because you told him to cut it because he wrote this: 

    "

    "Great job, LA.

    I'm not surprised that some people are angry and that some tries to friends with everybody by sucking it up to the teams involved - there's so many dumb people on this earth, some are bound to be on this site as well.

    Edit: 

    Actually, this is a great way of sorting out the people with some brains and the people who're stupid as **** on this site. Jej!""

     

    You say that he should only post if it's something positive but honestly that's completely fucked. Hell even I've said many times in the past that there's a bunch of yes-men floating around on this site and I don't remember having someone tell me to shut up about it :D But, whilst the whole 'constructive' criticism would be great, is Lain's comment really as bad (or worse even) as people mindlessly agreeing to stuff previously, simply because "X" said so? It's perhaps demoralising but if I was in Kenu's position I'd absolutely rather have people shitting on random things than people mindlessly saying "that's good shit right there 💯mmmmh💯". 

    Edited by MartindalexC
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